A CHAT WITH ELLIE
BY KATHERINE CHUNGEllie (she/her) is a transgender vocalist and musician who uses her music to confront and challenge haters and transphobes. Her latest EP, Forbidden Fruit, is a collection of messages and stories for trans royalty of all genders. The title draws inspiration from the themes of the story of Eden and the notion that trans people are often considered "forbidden" in various aspects of life, such as sports, politics, and love. Ellie explains, "So many people, mostly cis, have a lot to say about trans people. So, why not talk back for once?" The EP is set to be released on June 14th, with a free release party show at Rockwood Music Hall's Stage 1 on the 13th, 2024
What inspired you to create a fun and whimsical EP instead of sticking to a specific genre like Pop or Indie?
The inspiration behind the lyrics came from my intentional decision, to be honest in a way that is not about heartbreak, love, or giving a f*ck when it comes to being a queer and trans person. My queerness and transness always informed the music that I make but I feel as though with this EP specifically, it’s the first time that I allowed for the rage to come out.
My full-time work is in education. In that headspace, I always do my best to enter into conversations and dialogue with compassion and curiosity but sometimes that creates a bit of dissonance with my personal feelings. Because when I am educating, my role is not to share my thoughts; it's to help people get to a place of empathy and understanding. Then with my music, I just wanted to say “F*ck you” to the transphobes, and allow myself to be honest and raw in a way that I used to be afraid that I used to be afraid to be. Like allowing myself to be truthful without needing to make sure every person agrees with what I am saying.
With the genres, I have historically done pop and a little bit of folk. But I have always had a wondering about more rock-hinged music. I didn’t get into listening to rock, pop, and punk-pop music until I started my transition. It was this thing that I found a lot of joy in when I started to be authentically myself. It’s like being authentically myself allowed me to tap into that anger in a cathartic and healthy way. I wanted that to show up on the EP as well.
As a trans person in the music industry, how do you hope to influence and inspire your fans?
One of my favorite things about my music is the way that we can interpret the lyrics, sounds, and emotions that are coming across. I have my ideas of what I wanted to say when I was making the 6 songs but once they are released out into the world, those that listen will take on their meaning for what these songs are about.
When I think about my LGBTQ+ fans, especially trans people, I encourage them to be authentic to be themselves, even if it's scary. It’s so scary to be myself but I know that I want to be myself more than I want to think other people’s idea of what I should be is.
I love Sophie’s music. I love the band, Um, Jennifer. I love Kim Petras' music. I love Sam Smith. There is trans representation out there but the way that trans people and trans artists are so equipped by cis performers is, I wouldn’t call it an issue but there are systems in place to elevate certain identities and mitigate other identities. When I think about marginalization in music, I think about the importance of representation. Like if I had what I was about to release when I was younger, I don’t know how it would have impacted me. But what I do know is that seeing more trans people out in the world making music and thriving is only a good thing. There is nothing bad that comes from trans people thriving.
What stories and messages are you aiming to convey through your song titles and lyrics, considering they can be interpreted in various ways?
I Am the Fire was chosen to be the first track of the EP because of the opening lyric, which I don’t want to spoil right now. I would rather people listen to it. But it felt like a rebirth and the hook of the song “Throw me to the fire/ I am the fire” is saying that you think that you can control me but you don’t know that you are feeding into my power by giving me yours. Even though it is coming across as anger, you’re anger fuels me to continue to live more authentically as myself.
What is it About Me? is very much a tongue-in-cheek song as is like Not Like Other Girls because they are both going to this idea of “Oh my gosh, it’s me. Am I the problem? Am I the drama?” When I know that I am the “drama” because I exist in a world that is designed to make me the drama. One of the biggest things for me on the EP was taking on the idea of how cis people view trans people as villains. I thought to myself “Okay well then fine, f*ck it. I am going to give you what I want and you were going to regret it because you are going to see just how powerful I can be. I have never shown you my true form.”
With the song, Want to Know You, it is the only song on the EP about a specific person. I would say that it is the closest to the music I have released in the past about falling for someone. This time the song takes on this fun flirtatious vibe that I tap into a little bit but I wanted to tap into my sexuality and personality.
Too Far to Fall was written on TikTok live which was a lot of fun for me. It was like an experiment. I was writing this song, and transphobes were in the comments on this live calling me names, making fun of me, and telling me that I shouldn’t be making music. And I was directly responding to their comments in real-time with lyrics. It became an exciting endeavor for me because while there were transphobes in this life, there were also allies and other trans people on the life defending me. So I am just sitting here making music on my silly little laptop while these people are going off in the comments and I am watching all of this go down. Overall, this song is saying “I am too far above this. It doesn’t affect me as much as you want it to affect me.” I want to stay in the sky, even though I am afraid of it, which I think is silly because I am 6’4. I wanted to make a song that shared with the world, no matter what you say about me I am going to be okay.
Then the final track of the song, Forbidden Fruit, the title track of the EP was written because I wanted to have fun and make an intense punk rock song. It is a giant middle finger to the haters and calls out all the aspects that transphobes like to point out, like my body, voice, and style. Taking all of those things that they try to preserve as negative and reclaiming them in real time, makes it important to me.
You have quite a following on TIKTOK Where do you get your inspiration for music promotion, skits, lives, and other videos?
I see what is relevant, and I try to play into that but I would say the larger aspect is that I am just myself. I am my authentic self. I am silly. I am goofy. I can be passionate. And I can be calm.
My Tikok account specifically when I first started was sharing stories about my life and I eventually started to make TikToks about my gender identity and queerness. In part because I was seeing other trans queer creators not necessarily find success but find a community. One of the things that I have a love/hate relationship with when it comes to social media is community building. I have lots of mutuals made, crazy opportunities gained, and even a lot of people trying to turn me down on the app. However when I make my posts, I don’t think about it from the perspective of, “Will this get 1 million views or likes like some of my other TikToks did in the past.” Now I try to make it from a perspective of I just want to be me and if it doesn’t resonate with people then fantastic, that is okay. Social media is such a small window into who I am and I want people to get to know me authentically as opposed to this idea of me.
As an artist, what is your standpoint on creating music on social media?
That’s a great question! I like it. I think there is something fun about creating music and throwing it against the wall and then seeing what sticks and then trying something else. One thing that I will say for myself is, that when I am creating music I do my best to create music for my taste as opposed to “How well will this chart?” because if I don’t like it I am not expecting anyone else to. But when I make a song on social media and I share it with my friends or parents, I feel good about it because I like the song if other people don't like the song that’s chill because from this inception it was made for me.
Do you have any idea for merch or projects beyond the EP?
I’m a big fan of crop tops. I would love to make crop tops and high-waisted shorts with a little design on the booty. Maybe a curly-haired hat, as someone with curly hair I am protective of what goes in my hair. I would also love to release a vinyl. I am a vinyl collector. The idea of having my music in a physical form excites me but I want to make sure that I have a large enough fan base that they will want to buy it before I dive into that.
Outside of merch and physicality, I want to connect with my fans on a person-to-person basis. I am big on intimate human connections. Intimacy doesn’t have to mean, “Let’s trauma dump each other within the first 5 minutes of knowing each other.” It’s more like, “Tell me who you are. We can have small talk if you want but tell me what makes you you.” I am not sure how I can incorporate that into merch but maybe a journal or something. I have ADHD so maybe a day planner with quotes.
What are you doing to celebrate PRIDE beyond just releasing music?
I'm having a release show on June 13th at 9 PM at Rockwood Music Hall in New York City. It’s free and it is going to be my first performance in a long time. I want to say like a year ago. I have been cooking and I am now ready to serve the masses on a silver platter. I am also planning on going to several protests, marches, parades, and celebrations because pride began with the ride. I want to make sure that I am using my voice for good and to lift marginalized identities. These gatherings when it is safe to do so are places where I found a lot of power and community.
I would love to have a meet-up for folks who would like to meet up in New York City. Going to a happy hour, park, or just vibing to get to know each other excites me and fills me with a warm bubbly feeling. And also being gay in the middle of the city is something that I am never not being gay but being more gay is something I will never say no to.
Who would be on your ideal Pride festival lineup, whether you're performing with them or just watching?
In no particular order: Chappel Roan, I need her to punch me in the face, I will thank her and give her money for it. I would love to perform with Zee Machine who is a queer artist from Los Angeles. I would love to see Mitski live, that would be fun. I am also a big Olivia Rodrigo girlie and Renee Rapp. Oh, and Flyna Boss. Their slather is out of this world. Just ot be in the same room as them and then remember that I am a singer and shout with no volume.
I’m looking at my Spotify playlist right now. Briston Maroney, I would love to see live. I would love to see Willow live too. Dua Lipa. Lastly, Itzy. I am a K-pop girlie and I would love to watch their choreography in-real time and freak the f*ck out. I love to fan girl. I will anytime!
You can find ELLIE on Instagram here
You can find ELLIE on TikTok here